410 Feature finish

Brent Leach · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:59 am **Posts:** 8879

I guess I'm glad not all track only let the front stretch flagman throw cautions. Pretty antiquated system they use there I guess.

ohdh · **Posted:** Tue May 22, 2012 10:16 pm

Brent Leach wrote:

ohdh wrote:

BrianRhoad wrote:

Here's my take on it. Notice in the picture the top row of the grandstand with the gentleman with the yellow sweatshirt on, I sit a few seats over from him on the right in this picture.

I was watching Lance coming for the checker and never saw the mess down the backstraight until that was almost done and the 48 was at a stop.

The starter was watching Lance coming down the front straight to take the checkered flag which was being unfurled and being waved as Lance was just about at the flag stand.

At that same time, the assistant starter was pulling the red flag from it's holder and trying to hand it to the starter in his left hand so he could put it out. I believe there was a second where the starter had no clue what was going on down the back but there was a flag being stuck in his left hand. If you look real close, that flag is not out over the hand rail, it is still behind the hand rail at this point. It is a little confusing since they are also wearing red officials shirts, but that red flag has not yet been put out and Lance is clearly past the finish line at this point.

That's my take on it and I'm standing firm on it.

So you agree on racing back to the flag? The red or at least yellow should have been out LONG before this. Is that the green light still on below the flagstand? They were late all night long throwing cautions. Are they trying to move the show along swiftly by throwing "caution to the wind"?

Brent,

My opinion on it is no, I do not agree on racing back to the flag. But, under the conditions we had Friday night, I believe the call is correct. I believe that the starter's name is Glenn, so I would say that Glenn and I along with others were watching Lance racing down the front stretch towards the checkered flag. I know that's what I was watching. In this instance, I am in a good visual location behind and above the flag stand to watch the finish. I did not even realize that there was a crash on the back stretch till I saw the assisant starter trying and fumbling to give Glenn a red flag, at that point I was looking and thinking what's going on?

Yes, that is still a green light under the starter's stand. The assisant starter probably should have switched it to red, probably even before he was fumbling with the red flag.

I do not believe that we should be racing back to the flag. Problem with this case is that the green lights are still on, the red flag has not been waved as it's still on the wrong side of the railing, therefore, still has not been put out. Lance has already crossed the finish line under the checkered flag. Sorry, this race is over.

With the belief that you do not race back to the flag stand, Knoxville instituted a rule for the drivers to quickly and safely come to a stop asap so that it is safe for rescue teams to get on the track and tend to drivers involved in the crash. You do not quickly slow or stop, you are dq'ed for the night. I personally call it the "________" (I have left it blank as Mods here could construe it as "bashing") rule, ever watch him on a red or yellow, he never stops quickly. Sorry, they have push trucks and will push you to the area when it is safe to do so. I have seen him drive through many crash areas well after the fact while safety crews are trying to get to the accident. He claims that he does not want to get run over from behind. Personally, I don't believe it, just stop.

Back on topic, I spent many, many years on the DIRT circuit watching the best and extremely respected Dave Farney flag racing in NY. This type of finish happened one night in NY and Dave himself admitted that he never got the red out in time as the leader was approaching the flag stand with the checkered flags (he always uses two checkered flags) waving, he never got the red over the hand rail which was his determining factor for deciding that the race was over.

I think this race fits the criteria of a completed race.

sprintfan111 · **Joined:** Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:30 pm **Posts:** 131

Again, the fact that these problems regularly occur at WG is the real issue. It's not like this was a one time thing, which also lends credence to the idea that it was just totally wrong.

Brent Leach · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:59 am **Posts:** 8879

JASTY-2D wrote:

:bdf:

Would you still be dancing if a driver got hurt because they now allow racing back to the checkered flag? I hope not. :roll:

Brent Leach · **Joined:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:59 am **Posts:** 8879

Oliver ,
I never disputed that Lance crossed the line before the red came out. My gripe is that from my vantage point ( top row in turn 4 bleachers), Lance was not even in front of me yet when the crash was occuring . My gripe is that the yellow or red should have been thrown instantly. I'm sure there is a switch to throw the lights on. The flag is not the quickest way to signal the drivers. It will be very hard to convince me that they didn't keep the green out to finish the race. Which IS and always WILL BE my complaint. The race should have been restarted with one lap to go.

Ps. This doesn't have anything to do with Lance. Look at my first post on this and you will see I sent out a congrats. I'm not forming my opinion on who won the race , but how the race was ended.

Straight Shooter · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 8:27 am

Well then they might as well take off the headsets the officials wear & throw in the can.
Yes the situation is over & done with.
Bad call was made.
No one from the establishments wants to say they screwed up.

WE ARE WILLIAMS GROVE!!!!

P.S. Why does the advertisements for the Grove have a picture of some ole bag in a bathing suit in it each week? What the hell does she have to do with trying to attract fans to a sprintcar race???? :cwm4:

sprntlover · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 8:59 am

Straight Shooter wrote:

P.S. Why does the advertisements for the Grove have a picture of some ole bag in a bathing suit in it each week? What the hell does she have to do with trying to attract fans to a sprintcar race???? :cwm4:

Maybe that's Stephani's Mom LMAO. You know, the one who lives 2.8 or so miles from everyone :cwm4:

ohdh · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 10:02 am

Brent Leach wrote:

Oliver ,
I never disputed that Lance crossed the line before the red came out. My gripe is that from my vantage point ( top row in turn 4 bleachers), Lance was not even in front of me yet when the crash was occuring . My gripe is that the yellow or red should have been thrown instantly. I'm sure there is a switch to throw the lights on. The flag is not the quickest way to signal the drivers. It will be very hard to convince me that they didn't keep the green out to finish the race. Which IS and always WILL BE my complaint. The race should have been restarted with one lap to go.

Ps. This doesn't have anything to do with Lance. Look at my first post on this and you will see I sent out a congrats. I'm not forming my opinion on who won the race , but how the race was ended.

Slow caution flags or red flags in my opinion have been a problem for years at WG. I believe it comes from the size of the track and the belief by the officials that a car can roll into an area and get off the track without a caution.

Think about all the nights at Lincoln, generally, yellows and reds fly pretty quickly at that track and yet the assistant starter at Lincoln controls the switch there and he is the starter now at WG. That track is small and stuff happens "quick" so I think there the logic is we need the calls quick to prevent more involvement by cars in the accident.

Maybe what we need is something that Dave Farney promoted years ago on the DIRT circuit and that was a "race director" who sat up in the scorers box and that person had control of the caution/red lights with the theory that since they are up high, have a better view of the entire track, and they race director could put the lights on quick.

Something to ponder. . .we just need to remember we are all human and human thoughts do take some time to process and then react on with actual movement.

Straight Shooter · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 10:11 am

Please do something for the safety side of the sport before it becomes a housing development!

Tweedlee · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 10:32 am

Straight Shooter wrote:

P.S. Why does the advertisements for the Grove have a picture of some ole bag in a bathing suit in it each week? What the hell does she have to do with trying to attract fans to a sprintcar race???? :cwm4:

I was wondering the same thing and thought I missed something.

Mr. Port · **Joined:** Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:55 pm **Posts:** 1155

sprntlover wrote:

Straight Shooter wrote:

P.S. Why does the advertisements for the Grove have a picture of some ole bag in a bathing suit in it each week? What the hell does she have to do with trying to attract fans to a sprintcar race???? :cwm4:

Maybe that's Stephani's Mom LMAO. You know, the one who lives 2.8 or so miles from everyone :cwm4:

I think shes a looker, LOL.

Sea Bass · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 11:39 am

Straight Shooter wrote:

P.S. Why does the advertisements for the Grove have a picture of some hottie in a bathing suit in it each week? What the hell does she have to do with trying to attract fans to a sprintcar race?

Ask OXOX MOM, the same person who sponsors the billboard in turn 2.

TURK182!

Bill Mc · **Joined:** Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:17 am **Posts:** 4989

ohdh wrote:

Think about all the nights at Lincoln, generally, yellows and reds fly pretty quickly at that track and yet the assistant starter at Lincoln controls the switch there and he is the starter now at WG. That track is small and stuff happens "quick" so I think there the logic is we need the calls quick to prevent more involvement by cars in the accident..

I dont know what you are watching but Lincoln is the worst for not throwing a caution flag until the last second. They do it all the time.

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