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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 3:53 pm 
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Looks like the list on the website hasn't been updated since 2009, so here's the updated list, including the old prelim features:

Steve Kinser 38
Mark Kinser 18
Donny Schatz 16
Sammy Swindell 15
Lance Dewease 8
Fred Rahmer 8
Don Kreitz Jr. 7
Greg Hodnett 7
Bobby Allen 6
Bobby Davis Jr. 6
Dave Blaney 4
Stevie Smith 4
Doug Wolfgang 4
Keith Kauffman 3
Daryn Pittman 3
Jason Meyers 3
Craig Dollansky 2
Cris Eash 2
Jac Haudenschild 2
Johnny Herrera 2
Danny Lasoski 2
Chad Layton 2
Paul McMahan 2
Cody Darrah 2
Brad Doty 1
Doug Esh 1
Kevin Gobrecht 1
Andy Hillenburg 1
Jason Johnson 1
Brian Leppo 1
Terry McCarl 1
Lynn Paxton 1
Joey Saldana 1
Tim Shaffer 1
Ron Shuman 1
Mark Smith 1
Jason Solwold 1
Billy Stief 1
Kramer Williamson 1

181


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Quite impressive that 7 of the top 8 on that list will be running tomorrow and with the right luck any of those 7 can still win.

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:16 am 
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I'm a little confused....the local fans brag about the Posse taking it to the WoO but the first four names are/were WoO regulars :thinking: :poking: :dontknow:

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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 11:41 am 
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That's cool you included prelim wins, I always considered them a WoO feature win, even though the WoO strangely never did :thinking: :thumbleft:

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2014 races:

Salamanca, NY - ISOC/ECS Snocross
Lincoln - 2
Port Royal - 4
Lernerville - 5
Mercer - 2
Williams Grove - 2
McKean County - 3
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 4:55 pm 
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CTtoPA wrote:
I'm a little confused....the local fans brag about the Posse taking it to the WoO but the first four names are/were WoO regulars :thinking: :poking: :dontknow:


Careful now, them there is fightin' words to the Posse proud. Facts and statistics are only considered relevent when they are in favor of the Posse. :poking:


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 5:37 pm 
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CTtoPA wrote:
I'm a little confused....the local fans brag about the Posse taking it to the WoO but the first four names are/were WoO regulars :thinking: :poking: :dontknow:

:dontknow:

Okay...you are right but it wasn't always a level playing field. I think the Posse only had steel engine blocks and the WOO was using Aluminum back in the day when most people don't remember. Maybe the weight rule was different...I don't remember either.

In the old days the Outlaws had some of the best equipment and technology available. Guess money has something to do with it.


Now today...I think the playing field is the same except the Outlaws are just too darn good and adapt to different tracks better!

I would like to see a true Outlaw race where anything goes. Pick your brand of tire, engine, fuel, wing size or no wing, and traction control. :yessss:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 9:38 am 
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CTtoPA wrote:
I'm a little confused....the local fans brag about the Posse taking it to the WoO but the first four names are/were WoO regulars :thinking: :poking: :dontknow:

I think this "posse pride" thing comes from the fact that of all the WoO races ran, they have won over 50 of them! Not to many other local race teams can say the same. On the other hand this whole posse thing is kinda ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 10:26 am 
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Other than the streak a couple of years ago most realized that the Posse won 20 to 25 percent of the races which over the longhaul is better than most can claim. THe thing is when the Outlaws come in you just never know who will step up and win one. Most places they go they know if the shut out a couple of guys they have it made. I would also hate to say that anyone who has been taken to school by the guy who has the most wins on that list should quit.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:14 pm 
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Just a guess, but I believe that if you looked just at the last 8 or 10 years you might find that the posse has won nearly 1/2 the outlaw shows.


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 1:25 pm 
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longtimefan wrote:
Other than the streak a couple of years ago most realized that the Posse won 20 to 25 percent of the races which over the longhaul is better than most can claim. THe thing is when the Outlaws come in you just never know who will step up and win one. Most places they go they know if the shut out a couple of guys they have it made. I would also hate to say that anyone who has been taken to school by the guy who has the most wins on that list should quit.


Steve Kinser had his time in the spotlight, but father time escape no one! If Steve stills loves to race and there are car owners willing to give him a ride it's OK by me. Still like to hear his name announced. Just like old times. As far as his record, he was fortunate to be with the same team for 25 years. Still think Sammy & Doug were just as good if not better. Steve's team was just head and shoulders above everybody else. There are drivers just as good today, that will never touch his records. Today everybody is running the same equipment and have their setups down. Comparing Steve and his record with today's drivers is Apples & Oranges. As far as the Woo record vs the Posse, there are many factors to consider. When the rules were the same as they are now it's a pretty even ballgame. I will concede that our guys would get killed on the Woo circuit. When we ran different rules and had to change over when they came to town, we got steamrolled.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:39 am 
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In the early days the outlaws ran without wings. Most of the Posse had never done that. It was almost comical watching Wolfgang and Ferkel and Swindell unload and roar off into the 1st turn wide open, while the Posse boys seemed to take a few warm up laps to get the feel of things.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:18 am 
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Double D Fan wrote:
In the early days the outlaws ran without wings. Most of the Posse had never done that. It was almost comical watching Wolfgang and Ferkel and Swindell unload and roar off into the 1st turn wide open, while the Posse boys seemed to take a few warm up laps to get the feel of things.



Really???????????????????????????????????????

The things you learn on here! :thumbright:

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The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:01 pm 
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Double D Fan wrote:
In the early days the outlaws ran without wings. Most of the Posse had never done that. It was almost comical watching Wolfgang and Ferkel and Swindell unload and roar off into the 1st turn wide open, while the Posse boys seemed to take a few warm up laps to get the feel of things.


3 of the first 4 Grove Outlaw races were won by PA drivers (Williamson, Paxton, Kauffman).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:09 am 
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dsc1600 wrote:
Double D Fan wrote:
In the early days the outlaws ran without wings. Most of the Posse had never done that. It was almost comical watching Wolfgang and Ferkel and Swindell unload and roar off into the 1st turn wide open, while the Posse boys seemed to take a few warm up laps to get the feel of things.


3 of the first 4 Grove Outlaw races were won by PA drivers (Williamson, Paxton, Kauffman).


Lincoln also, two night show with and without wings. Smitty covered them without a wing. :thumbleft:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:17 pm 
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What this list shows is that, to consistently win Outlaw races at Williams Grove, you have to be great. The top 4 winners are 4 of the top 5 best Outlaw drivers ever (surprised Wolfgang didn't win more honestly) and the top 4 Posse guys on the list are 4 of the greatest ever at the Grove. Those 8 guys have won 118 of the 182 races held, which is nearly 65%.


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