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 Post subject: 358/360's
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:07 pm 
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I'm hearing that Lincoln and Williams Grove may allow URC type 360's to run with the 358's next year, on a weekly basis. Can anyone confirm?


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:46 pm 
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Hannity wrote:
I'm hearing that Lincoln and Williams Grove may allow URC type 360's to run with the 358's next year, on a weekly basis. Can anyone confirm?
Just curious but what are the rules concerning the racing of these two classes? I know the motors and HP is different and the wings on the 358's are different vs the 360's, and they do race them in a "challenge" race every so often. So I'm curious as to what is put into place in the rules to prevent a "knife in a gun fight" type of scenario? Or are those races just a "run what you got" type of deal where all the front runners are 360's with the exception of the fastest 358's? Never been to one and a quick search on Google didn't answer my question. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:59 pm 
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I found these "challenge" rules on Lincoln's website;

Tire Rule:

American Racer 4 corners for all 360 and URC registered 358’s. (360’s on a TP must run AR on LR & RR, Fronts open)

Lincoln 358 sprints require American Racer RR ONLY!

Weight-rule:

1,475 lbs. WITH driver

1,525 lbs. if running a Vacuum oil pan system

Engine Rules:

URC Rules per Rule Book (http://www.urcsprints.com/ >Go to Competitors)

358 motor rules to follow strictly Lincoln Speedway rules

358 Sprints must meet all other URC car specification rules (5x5 wing optional)



I have no idea how much horsepower and or torque a good 358 can produce. I do know that it's not uncommon for a 358 to win a challenge race. It's my understanding that the URC already allows 358's at all of their shows, but I'm hearing that the tracks that feature 358's weekly may do the same.

I think its fair to say that both groups are looking for ways to attract more cars. If the rules produce fair outputs, I'm all in favor of the additional flexibility for the 358/360 teams.

Can anyone confirm?


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 8:03 am 
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I like it! :thumbright:

Sounds like a good way for 358 teams to use up their equipment and make the inevitable transition to the 360's. Have no idea if this rumor is true or not, but I would like to see all tracks that run 358's do this. 410's need to be fazed out. Too many classes. Pennsylvania needs to get sprint racing on par with what most of the country is doing. 360 SPRINTS.

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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:44 am 
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NEWBOMB TURK wrote:
I like it! :thumbright:

Sounds like a good way for 358 teams to use up their equipment and make the inevitable transition to the 360's. Have no idea if this rumor is true or not, but I would like to see all tracks that run 358's do this. 410's need to be fazed out. Too many classes. Pennsylvania needs to get sprint racing on par with what most of the country is doing. 360 SPRINTS.


If the WoO switches to 360s, the tracks here would be falling all over themselves to comply. The WoO is the source of all wisdom on rules and right living for the sprint car faithful.

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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:12 am 
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Warthog wrote:
NEWBOMB TURK wrote:
I like it! :thumbright:

Sounds like a good way for 358 teams to use up their equipment and make the inevitable transition to the 360's. Have no idea if this rumor is true or not, but I would like to see all tracks that run 358's do this. 410's need to be fazed out. Too many classes. Pennsylvania needs to get sprint racing on par with what most of the country is doing. 360 SPRINTS.


If the WoO switches to 360s, the tracks here would be falling all over themselves to comply. The WoO is the source of all wisdom on rules and right living for the sprint car faithful.



Seems to be the case, but if the few remaining areas of the country that run 410,s went 360's, then the outlaws would either comply or become a dinosaur.

360's will take over, and 410's and 358's will be out. 358's have one foot out the door already. Once the 358's are gone, the 410's will move to 360's. It may be a slow and painful process, but IMO it will happen in the next 5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:54 am 
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I appreciate the spirited debate, but unfortunately, no one has answered my question...

Will 358/360's run together next year, on a weekly basis?

Btw, I'm not convinced that the 360 platform is going to save sprint car racing. A good 360 is now 40-50k. Is that the answer we're looking for?

Here's the problem; no one is leading/guiding the industry. When I say lead, I'm talking about making decisions today that will preserve the future. The decisions being made today are short sighted and cater to big money and big team politics. The engine platforms, both 360 and 410, are ridiculously expensive and little has been done to slow inflation. The tire deals don't promote side-by-side racing, they promote the promoter! And little has been done to address safety. While the WRG milks the WoO brand for all its worth, they've done nothing to address serious injury and or death. Torsion bar stops are still falling off and we still don't know the ultimate root cause.

We need a leader! Someone who has foresight and who has the courage to make changes, even when they're unpopular.

Sorry about the rant! lol...

While we search for the next "President", I like the idea of a universal-flexible rule package. Will 358/360's run together next year, on a weekly basis?


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I have heard rumars about this at Selinsgrove as well.

This is just my low budget opinion....

When KARS went under and the head rule opened up the 358's were dead in the water....

358 steal head unlimited work to heads from what i understand they actually flow better than a 360 head, however with limited 10.8 to 1 compression they make a little less HP and torch and with the steal head they are heavier.

360 basically can't touch the head unlimited compression = about 50 HP more.

With lower car counts everywhere, it would seem to make sense to me to combined us 358 / 360 for 2 years and get rid of the 358. There is no longer a cost savings in my opinion to the 358 to 360.

Matt Highlands did say one time that it did cost him more to run his 360 than 358 not sure what the basis of that was on but i read that somewhere....

Nyle Berkes 99B


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:41 pm 
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I asked this question awhile back about the A4MP motor program and never really got anybody to give me their thoughts. Here is a link http://www.alternative410motor.com/ Basically the project is/was headed by folks like Donny Schatz and Ron Shaver and is aimed at reducing the costs for teams to go 410 racing and be competitive on most tracks. The gist of the program from my understanding using a GM LSx based platform as the basis of the motor and restrict how it can be built using many off the shelf GM parts. I've been interested in the project being I have a little S10 pickup at home I have a LS1 stuffed under the hood of. The LS1 has a stock bottom end, with a small 224/224 cam on a 114 LSA with about .550 lift, and a set of mildly ported heads (TEA stage 1.5s) the little truck made about 400 rwhp. So I've seen just how well those motors run with just a tiny bit of work.

I've read all the news articles and such on the web but I have never seen anybody race on here locally, so I wonder two things.
1. Are the local tracks allowing these motors?
2. Are they as competitive as the folks on the websites leading you to believe?


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:23 pm 
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NEWBOMB TURK wrote:
I like it! :thumbright:

Sounds like a good way for 358 teams to use up their equipment and make the inevitable transition to the 360's. Have no idea if this rumor is true or not, but I would like to see all tracks that run 358's do this. 410's need to be fazed out. Too many classes. Pennsylvania needs to get sprint racing on par with what most of the country is doing. 360 SPRINTS.


9:22PM, 9/9/13 - I agree with something N.T. thinks - there's a first for everything.


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:46 pm 
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So if everyone thinks we should get rid of 410's and 358's and go to 360's does this mean that Selinsgrove switches to 305's and Lincoln and the Grove run 305's as their support division. Just curious because some at Selingrove complained that admission went from $10 to $12 this year; what would they do if they went to 15 or 16 to support the purse that Lincoln and Port are already paying and would be able to continue to pay?


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:40 am 
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Correct me if I'm wrong but 360s pay less then the 410s so admission should go down. I could care less what the motor is as long as its better racing then what I've seen this year in the 410s

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Central PA 358 Racing Series - http://www.centralparacing.com

2014 race count

Williams Grove-6
Lincoln- 21
Trail Way -15
Port - 1

40 races in 2013
50 races in 2012.
56 races in 2011.


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:44 am 
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the premier sprint division which the 360's would then be pay more. Lincoln and Port are already geared for that so there would no change to their fans. By the way anyone who thinks that a 360 motor will cost less than 410 does now after the 410's are gone is going to be disappointed. The cheapest horsepower is made with cubic inches and some will spend the money to go as fast with a 360 as they do now with the 410.


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 Post subject: Re: 358/360's
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:30 am 
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If i were to guess if any track were to go 360 around here it will be Selinsgrove.

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2014 Race Count: 47
Lincoln - 4
Selinsgrove - 22
Williamsgrove - 15
Port Royal - 3
Path Valley - 1
Hagerstown - 1
McKean County - 1


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