NEWBOMB TURK wrote:
I'd like to see a side by side comparison on engine component cost and rebuild costs and longevity on a 358, 360 and 410. 358 really doesn't matter as they will soon be gone
Other than the number of runs between refreshes I would imagine the costs are very similar. Bearings, magnafluxing components, valvesprings, and all those parts and pieces that get checked and chunked during a refresh in reality cost pretty close to if not the same between any V8 motor really. I'm sure there might be something that I'm overlooking but most of your parts would cost roughly the same. FYI, I've assembled several LSx motors at home for my little street truck I like to drag race and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt allot of your costs when we talk about engines is the machine shop costs IE labor and so on.
The big money saver on a 360 is the heads. Everybody must use exactly the same ones NO ALTERATIONS OF ANY KIND PERMITTED. They can and will be checked with gauges should the need arise. Heads rules make many other engine component choices narrow. NO ALUMINUM BLOCKS NO TITANIUM allowed either. Your not going to tell me steel is more expensive than aluminum or titanium?
This isn't really true. The heads can be modified on 360s. Read the head rules in their entirety http://www.ascsracing.com/downloads/get.aspx?i=75426
They are allowed to polish this and polish that as long as the intake runner doesn't exceed however many CCs or they don't go beyond their specifications. They are still allowing builders to mess with the heads (performance mods, lets call it what it is), they are just giving the builder a smaller window to work in (or what they think is a smaller window). Also, they are allowed to run Titanium in the motors too, it's just limited to items like valve retainers and valves. Which does drive costs up but makes all the sense in the world, when you want a motor to live 15+ nights without crashing the valvetrain. Racers are gonna spin the snot out of it whether it is a steel or titanium valvetrain. Problem is if it's steel and a spring gets a little lazy then you definitely are gonna crash a valve into a piston and wipe the whole motor out. I think the ASCS realized this and have started to let this slide a little. Is there a cost gain? Yeah a little, but it's definitely cheaper than wiping out a motor.
Do you know the main factor in high costs??????????????????????????
Here it is, like it or not! NO RULES NO ENFORCEMENT.
TEAMS will spend an ungodly amount of money to get an advantage on there competitors.
I agree with you here because racers are racers and they are going to look for every advantage. I would also like to offer you this being it also applies.RULES BUT NO ENFORCEMENT = NO RULES
If a rule can't be enforced then it isn't a rule, and I wonder if the ASCS head rules fall into this category which is why the motor costs have gone up so much with them.
Engine builders are in heaven!
Not so sure on this. The limited engine assembly I've done (won't call myself a builder) has been mostly just following well known "recipes" to get good results IE use this cam with these heads and it should make XYZ horsepower. The beauty is too that it was all off the shelf stuff. When you are the true builder and you're testing new cam technologies or you attempting to optimize cylinder head ports and so on I truely wonder just how much stuff you TRASH/DESTROY and lose money on vs finding something that will give a competitor 10 more horsepower. It costs alot of money to do the machine work on custom stuff, and the time and research required to develop new things I'm sure is immeasurable. So I would have to imagine that a chunk of that $40,000 - $50,000 engine is to pay for not only the development of the good things the builder put in the engine, but also the many "Oops" along the way.