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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:20 pm 
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Deez Nuts wrote:
is it possible that in todays 410 division, we have many many more excellent drivers than we did in the past? When Freddie was winning every week, or when lance was dominating, what was the competition like? was it only a handful of fast cars and mostly field fillers? I think there isnt much passing because today, all the drivers are much more talented than years past.


The competition wasn't as even. It was like you said, a handful of fast cars plus the field fillers except for the Grove; which used to have the crème of the crop every Friday night. Nowadays with a lot more 1 track teams, Port and Lincoln have just as good if not better fields than the grove. Back in the 90's; it was the Lance and Todd show @ Port and the Freddie show @ Lincoln. The Grove was where you saw big car counts and all the good cars, not anymore. IDK if it's that there are more good drivers or that they all have good, equal equipment now. Maybe with the advance of technology they are easier to drive. :dontknow:

I think it's still good and I still enjoy myself but man I miss the 90's...fun times! Sucks getting old. :ahhh:

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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:32 pm 
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I hate the term "field fillers". All these drivers and owners try to be the best they can, some make it and some don't. But to say they don't mean anything is just hateful. Real fans don't talk like that. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:33 pm 
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racer33 wrote:
I agree totally....let the racers decide what they want to run on all four corners. American Racer still makes the best tires out of natural rubber not the crap Hoosier is using. We ******** about the Goodyears and now we have tires that are ten times worse than they were. Of course the racetracks are getting the kick-back from the tire manufacturers so they want to dictate what tires you have to run. True, wings are the other big problem. Watch a guy out front with a so-so race car going like hell then he gets passed by one guy and gets in dirty air and he drops like a rock. Yes, parity sucks. everybody has just about the same horsepower so winning has to come from somewhere else and it should be the drivers abilities, but it's not. The drivers and owners put on the show and they have the least to say about how they race....SUCKS. Drivers and owners are the worst organized people on the face of the earth. They will do almost anything to race, even being pushed around by people who have no clue as to how a race car operates or what it takes just to get ready and show up at the track to put on a show for the promoter. Imagine that!, you have to pay to put on the show and you have nothing to say about how it's done. Worst part of all is that it's been like that forever and I don't see it changing. Racers have one basic flaw....they love to race so much that they will do almost anything to do it and will subject themselves to so much crap it's unbelievable. God help the owners and drivers, because without their love for the sport the race tracks would sit empty. BTW, went to Lincoln tonight and saw a really good race with lots of passing on a track the was not great by any means but good enough to take some rubber and promote some passing. They had over 30 410's and 28 358's and a huge crowd and a 50/50 drawing that totaled over 4000 dollars so the winner got over $2200. They gave away 3 prizes to season ticket holders, two kids bikes, extra cash to the winners, $250 extra to the 4 cylinder stocks and also ran a make-up feature first and guess what---NO FIREWORKS


Yeah we need more tracks smaller than 1/2 mile. That is the great equalizer that promotes great racing, instead of making the cars identical. Due to my location, I mostly go to Port, Selinsgrove and WG. I like those tracks. The racing is OK, but I really enjoy it when I get the chance to see them on a bullring.

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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:40 pm 
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racebug wrote:
I hate the term "field fillers". All these drivers and owners try to be the best they can, some make it and some don't. But to say they don't mean anything is just hateful. Real fans don't talk like that. JMO


Fair enough. I think it's more respectful than the term "also-rans" but the point of the discussion was that a few years ago, there were a lot in cars in the pits that had a very low chance of winning. I respect any driver that straps in and every owner that puts a car on the track. We need them all and hey, sometimes they pull one out. Every dog has it's day.

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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Deez Nuts wrote:
is it possible that in todays 410 division, we have many many more excellent drivers than we did in the past? When Freddie was winning every week, or when lance was dominating, what was the competition like? was it only a handful of fast cars and mostly field fillers? I think there isnt much passing because today, all the drivers are much more talented than years past.

Uh, no. I'd say it's actually quite the opposite. Like I said in my earlier post there are a lot of guys winning today that would be lapped traffic back then (or now if you took their crutches away). Back then you either needed a good mechanic or you had to learn it yourself. That's what set guys like Rahmer and Lance apart from the rest (Doug Wolfgang and Sammy Swindell come to mind instantly too). Not only could they drive but they understood their cars and how they worked and knew exactly what they needed to go fast. Todd had Jimmy Russel. Greg had Lee. Steve had Karl. Blaney had Woodruff. Unfortunately, the new rules have taken away any adjustments that can give you an edge over somebody who isn't as smart as you or maybe doesn't have as much experience as you (or just doesn't want to work as hard as you). There is no innovation allowed anymore. It used to be that the goal of racing was to make your car as fast as possible so you had a chance to win every night. The guys that won the most were the guys that worked the hardest, drove the hardest, figured things out the fastest, and got the most out of their available resources. Nowadays you just bolt your cookie-cutter car together with all the "approved parts", put a flat wing and a spec tire on it and pray like hell that you draw a front row starting spot. It's a joke...


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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:47 pm 
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Steve Smith and Bob Allen were innovators too... You HAD to be back then. Not so much anymore. Racing is taking the way of our society nowadays where there are no winners and losers, everyone is equal and everyone deserves a participation trophy. :ahhhh:


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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:46 am 
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SuperN8 wrote:
Steve Smith and Bob Allen were innovators too... You HAD to be back then. Not so much anymore. Racing is taking the way of our society nowadays where there are no winners and losers, everyone is equal and everyone deserves a participation trophy. :ahhhh:



Realistic viewpoint..... Too bad it's not about reality anymore :ahhh:

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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:06 am 
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for many reasons, I leave Lincoln and Susky more satisfied with the racing product than the Grove can muster.

maybe the days of the "big half miles" are over...then reconfigure the track and get over the tradition.

much like asphalt club racing...it seems we pay to watch a "tire deal" play out throughout the season...and what racing we see happens by accident.

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Home of the OUTLAW A$$WHIPPERS
Lincoln = 1845 ft. = .35 mile T3=124 MPH
Eldora = 2287 ft. = .43 mile T3=135 MPH
Port = 2716 ft. = .51 mile T3=TBD
Grove = 2792 ft. = .53 mile T3=135 MPH
Selinsgrove = 2847 ft. = .54 mile T1=136 MPH

2013: 49 Races
Grove: 25 / Lincoln: 13 / Port: 2 / Susky: 4 / Selinsgrove: 2 / Eldora: 2 / Lima: 1


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 Post subject: Re: track conditions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:51 am 
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Quote:
Uh, no. I'd say it's actually quite the opposite. Like I said in my earlier post there are a lot of guys winning today that would be lapped traffic back then (or now if you took their crutches away). Back then you either needed a good mechanic or you had to learn it yourself. That's what set guys like Rahmer and Lance apart from the rest (Doug Wolfgang and Sammy Swindell come to mind instantly too). Not only could they drive but they understood their cars and how they worked and knew exactly what they needed to go fast. Todd had Jimmy Russel. Greg had Lee. Steve had Karl. Blaney had Woodruff. Unfortunately, the new rules have taken away any adjustments that can give you an edge over somebody who isn't as smart as you or maybe doesn't have as much experience as you (or just doesn't want to work as hard as you). There is no innovation allowed anymore. It used to be that the goal of racing was to make your car as fast as possible so you had a chance to win every night. The guys that won the most were the guys that worked the hardest, drove the hardest, figured things out the fastest, and got the most out of their available resources. Nowadays you just bolt your cookie-cutter car together with all the "approved parts", put a flat wing and a spec tire on it and pray like hell that you draw a front row starting spot. It's a joke...



:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


HotRod...Back in the 90's...I miss back in the 60's....1970's for central Pa. were some of the best talent collected in the country. Bar none!!


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