Trial ends

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BlueOnBlack21
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Trial ends

Post by BlueOnBlack21 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:27 pm

Just read on pennlive where the jury ruled in favor of williams grove. While i feel bad for john that the accident happened and that the injuries left him in his current state, i think the jury made the right decision. So now what does this mean moving forward :dontknow:

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Re: Trial ends

Post by cjettmail » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:58 pm

GREAT NEWS, I feel bad for Westbrook. He should have never got that far, Racing can have bad outcomes most of us hate when this happens, But we love our sport. I liked watching him race he was up and coming star, But I will think less of him because of his choice to sue the Grove!!!!!!!

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Re: Trial ends

Post by Bernie Lomax » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:03 pm

I'm guessing it'll probably mean some increased safety measures around the track. I don't mean any massive overhauls (like a fence in 1 and 2), but maybe just some little things here and there. Even though they won I assume they would want to keep fiascoes like this at an absolute minimum.

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Re: Trial ends

Post by supertc88 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:12 pm

Williams Grove Speedway not liable for driver's injuries, Cumberland County jury rules

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... cart_river
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Re: Trial ends

Post by racebug » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:17 pm

watch the prices of admission and pit fees go sky rocketing.

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Re: Trial ends

Post by NEWBOMB TURK » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:21 pm

I hope the Grove had insurance in case of a law suit! Even though they won, that trial still cost a pile of money. A little more care will probably be taken on registration, as far as dates and not having anything covered with a clip. I look for pit passes to be more limited.
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Re: Trial ends

Post by CTtoPA » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:08 pm

When the expert witness is a physician who said a HANS device would have prevented the injury and Westbrook's response was "I couldn't afford it", you're pretty much SOL. That's besides the prevailing signed release
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Re: Trial ends

Post by Warthog » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:55 pm

Bernie Lomax wrote:I'm guessing it'll probably mean some increased safety measures around the track. I don't mean any massive overhauls (like a fence in 1 and 2), but maybe just some little things here and there. Even though they won I assume they would want to keep fiascoes like this at an absolute minimum.
I don't recall - is there a catch fence by the entrance from the outer pits into the track? I'm mostly a front stretch grandstands guy, so it's been a while since I've been over there. If there isn't, that's probably the worst-case scenario - somebody flipping (or parts flying) through the gap and out into the fans waiting to cross the bridge. Potentially multiple injuries and probably none of them to people who had signed any sort of waiver. What are the odds of a car or parts coming through that gap at just the right angle? Pretty small. But if it's possible, it might eventually happen. If there's not a catch fence there now following the grandstand side of the pit entrance, that's probably the first upgrade that I'd suggest.

In any case, whatever improvements are determined to be useful, simply showing a on-going pattern of safety upgrades can only help in any future legal proceedings, whether it involves fans, crews, or drivers. And in the end, safety enhancements probably cost less than trial lawyers.
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Re: Trial ends

Post by bcy505 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:40 pm

Warthog wrote:I don't recall - is there a catch fence by the entrance from the outer pits into the track? I'm mostly a front stretch grandstands guy, so it's been a while since I've been over there. If there isn't, that's probably the worst-case scenario - somebody flipping (or parts flying) through the gap and out into the fans waiting to cross the bridge. Potentially multiple injuries and probably none of them to people who had signed any sort of waiver. What are the odds of a car or parts coming through that gap at just the right angle? Pretty small. But if it's possible, it might eventually happen. If there's not a catch fence there now following the grandstand side of the pit entrance, that's probably the first upgrade that I'd suggest.

In any case, whatever improvements are determined to be useful, simply showing a on-going pattern of safety upgrades can only help in any future legal proceedings, whether it involves fans, crews, or drivers. And in the end, safety enhancements probably cost less than trial lawyers.
I brought that gap up when Hodnett hit the fence head on in front of the pit bleachers earlier this year. But I was reassured "that would never happen."

All smart remarks aside, you are right that is a very bad spot. To me, I've never been worried about being hit by a car, I've always been concerned about debris from the accident. I was in the pit bleachers the night Hodnett hit 30 feet in front of me. The fence acted as a cheese grater to the front of his car. My concern was all of the pieces flying everywhere. On a bigger scale, look at what happened at Daytona last year, perfect example of the fence shredding a car.
Last edited by bcy505 on Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trial ends

Post by bcy505 » Mon Jul 21, 2014 10:45 pm

Here is a link to the discussion I mentioned in my previous post. I guess it wasn't as bad of a discussion as I recalled. None the less, there are some good points made in it.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50691

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Re: Trial ends

Post by winged_thunder » Tue Jul 22, 2014 7:05 am

Not to be a negative nancy, but you know he'll appeal (everyone who loses a case always does), and he could end up winning anyway.

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Re: Trial ends

Post by JTR13 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:27 am

Unfortunetly winged_thunder is right, this is far from over, John's attorney has already mentioned filing an appeal with the Superior Court...
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Re: Trial ends

Post by NEWBOMB TURK » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:04 am

I would think John's lawyer took this case for free (PRO BONO) and was going to get a percentage if they won. My view of this, is that the case was so weak, that it shouldn't have even been tried. I don't know if he would really want to waste his time. There are several tiers of circuit courts he could ask to hear the case, but I think he would be turned down one after another. I think except for some theatrics, this case is over and a done deal.
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Re: Trial ends

Post by JTR13 » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:10 am

But I can also say as a person who has working for a major medical insurance company here in PA for many years, as mentioned in some of the other threads on this topic, this very well could have been his insurance company pulling the strings and telling him he needed to move forward with this to offset some of the medical expenses they/he has had to pay out to date...
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Re: Trial ends

Post by Warthog » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:59 pm

bcy505 wrote:
Warthog wrote:I don't recall - is there a catch fence by the entrance from the outer pits into the track? I'm mostly a front stretch grandstands guy, so it's been a while since I've been over there. If there isn't, that's probably the worst-case scenario - somebody flipping (or parts flying) through the gap and out into the fans waiting to cross the bridge. Potentially multiple injuries and probably none of them to people who had signed any sort of waiver. What are the odds of a car or parts coming through that gap at just the right angle? Pretty small. But if it's possible, it might eventually happen. If there's not a catch fence there now following the grandstand side of the pit entrance, that's probably the first upgrade that I'd suggest.

In any case, whatever improvements are determined to be useful, simply showing a on-going pattern of safety upgrades can only help in any future legal proceedings, whether it involves fans, crews, or drivers. And in the end, safety enhancements probably cost less than trial lawyers.
I brought that gap up when Hodnett hit the fence head on in front of the pit bleachers earlier this year. But I was reassured "that would never happen."

All smart remarks aside, you are right that is a very bad spot. To me, I've never been worried about being hit by a car, I've always been concerned about debris from the accident. I was in the pit bleachers the night Hodnett hit 30 feet in front of me. The fence acted as a cheese grater to the front of his car. My concern was all of the pieces flying everywhere. On a bigger scale, look at what happened at Daytona last year, perfect example of the fence shredding a car.
The other aspect is nothing is ever going to be perfect protection. I was at Lincoln the night that a metal wheel cover came off a car in turn four, flew out over the catch fence (which is a height that most would agree is entirely reasonable and adequate for most situations, flew over the bleacher, and from what I heard, hit a guy at the top of the grandstands at the base of the tower. There's no way to prevent everything, but that doesn't mean that doing prudent things where possible isn't still worthwhile.

As a side note, being one who plays disc golf, I must admit that as I watched that wheel cover go zooming by that night, I was concerned for the potential outcome of where or who it might hit, and at the same time jealous - wishing that I could throw a disc with enough power to have it fly like that.
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