WSS

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Brent Leach
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Re: WSS

Post by Brent Leach » Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:54 pm

To me the dash lets the top cars run 5 or 6 laps, depending on the track, run some laps to jockey for position without having the other cars on the track. It's almost like their feature is just that many more laps than the other cars race. I see no problem with the dash format.

On a regular Friday or Saturday night sprint car show, I'd rather see 8 lap heats (positions are mainly decided within 5 laps anyhow), and then run a 30 lap feature. It only adds 3 laps on the evening per car and at least those laps are "money" laps. :idea:
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Bernie Lomax
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Re: WSS

Post by Bernie Lomax » Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:54 am

Brent Leach wrote:To me the dash lets the top cars run 5 or 6 laps, depending on the track, run some laps to jockey for position without having the other cars on the track. It's almost like their feature is just that many more laps than the other cars race. I see no problem with the dash format.

On a regular Friday or Saturday night sprint car show, I'd rather see 8 lap heats (positions are mainly decided within 5 laps anyhow), and then run a 30 lap feature. It only adds 3 laps on the evening per car and at least those laps are "money" laps. :idea:
I totally agree. A few times this year the race (not just for the lead) was getting very interesting right around lap 25. Five more laps would have been better. Also, with fewer cautions today (are there fewer? it seems like it) the five extra laps give those cars that start mid pack just a little bit more of a chance. Plus some cars come in a little later.
Obviously everybody likes passing, I just assume people would rather see it in the feature than in the heats. I don't mind tinkering with different formats to try and find the best solution though.

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Re: WSS

Post by NEWBOMB TURK » Fri Aug 01, 2014 8:39 am

dustyroad wrote:I read the format for the WSS and it made my head spin.
We should K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.
I am an owner/driver of a 410 so I have some skin in the game.

Here is a crazy idea. How about having draws for the heats and make the heats start less cars and run 10 to 12 laps so the fast experienced teams could put their knowledge into effect because there high dollar shocks and hired crew chiefs would maybe make their cars faster in the latter laps. You know instead of 10 cars in a heat for 8 laps how about 6 cars for 10 laps or 8 cars for 12 laps and take 4 for the feature. And then make the features 30 laps and let the cream rise to the top.

Lets make passing mean something, this is racing not drag racing where time means everything. I can not believe all the fans that like time trials. I say again it is passing that means something. The All Star and USAC formats are some of the worst a driver could in theory pass the same car three times in one night before it counts just because of a bad time trial lap. Again we want passing and I want to get something for what I earned like passing a car in the heat or B-main and then starting ahead of them in the feature.

Also why do the big teams like the WoO and All Star format so much. I could never figure out why they like running a dash, that is like running a mini feature before the main feature, eight cars run a longer feature that the rest of the field. I mean why run the car in the dash and take a chance on wadding it up before the feature, I know to get a better starting spot but risk versus reward. But these same teams hate a draw race, where I might add a pass means something for the feature.
Like I said less cars in the heats more laps and more heats but easier for the fans to understand.
Your thinking like a driver/owner. You have to fill the seats at the track or there is no racing. That's the bottom line. There will always be people wanting to race. ALWAYS They will go to what ever level they can afford. I guess that's why we have so many levels in sprints. Not that I like that, but with rising costs to race, that's just the way it is until somebody has the balls to do something about it. Not to be smart, but what drivers and owners think really doesn't matter in the final analysis. You have to put fans in the stands. That means you have to create interest. Try new innovative formats. Don't know how this is going to work out, but it is creating interest isn't it?
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hotrodney
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Re: WSS

Post by hotrodney » Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:50 pm

dustyroad wrote:I read the format for the WSS and it made my head spin.
We should K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid.
I am an owner/driver of a 410 so I have some skin in the game.

Here is a crazy idea. How about having draws for the heats and make the heats start less cars and run 10 to 12 laps so the fast experienced teams could put their knowledge into effect because there high dollar shocks and hired crew chiefs would maybe make their cars faster in the latter laps. You know instead of 10 cars in a heat for 8 laps how about 6 cars for 10 laps or 8 cars for 12 laps and take 4 for the feature. And then make the features 30 laps and let the cream rise to the top.

Lets make passing mean something, this is racing not drag racing where time means everything. I can not believe all the fans that like time trials. I say again it is passing that means something. The All Star and USAC formats are some of the worst a driver could in theory pass the same car three times in one night before it counts just because of a bad time trial lap. Again we want passing and I want to get something for what I earned like passing a car in the heat or B-main and then starting ahead of them in the feature.

Also why do the big teams like the WoO and All Star format so much. I could never figure out why they like running a dash, that is like running a mini feature before the main feature, eight cars run a longer feature that the rest of the field. I mean why run the car in the dash and take a chance on wadding it up before the feature, I know to get a better starting spot but risk versus reward. But these same teams hate a draw race, where I might add a pass means something for the feature.
Like I said less cars in the heats more laps and more heats but easier for the fans to understand.
Never really understood the point of having a dash either.
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Re: WSS

Post by hotrodney » Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:05 pm

I'm all for less qualifying and more feature laps. Most other forms of racing run a qualifying(TT) lap and that's it- straight to the main event, or else qualifying races(heats) and a feature and that's it. In sprints sometimes we run TT's, heats, B-main, C-main, dash; and now we're talking about a format with 2 rounds of heats just to ensure the fastest cars start upfront. WTF? Get to the meat and potatoes already...the feature! That's where a pass means something(more money). Last I knew a pass in a heat race or dash paid zilch, yet we want them to race like crazy to get qualified. Take all those needless qualifying laps and add them to the feature. We might even end up with a better racetrack as a bonus.
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Re: WSS

Post by NEWBOMB TURK » Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:28 pm

hotrodney wrote:I'm all for less qualifying and more feature laps. Most other forms of racing run a qualifying(TT) lap and that's it- straight to the main event, or else qualifying races(heats) and a feature and that's it. In sprints sometimes we run TT's, heats, B-main, C-main, dash; and now we're talking about a format with 2 rounds of heats just to ensure the fastest cars start upfront. WTF? Get to the meat and potatoes already...the feature! That's where a pass means something(more money). Last I knew a pass in a heat race or dash paid zilch, yet we want them to race like crazy to get qualified. Take all those needless qualifying laps and add them to the feature. We might even end up with a better racetrack as a bonus.
Good heats are just a good as good features in my book. Both have the same goal, "WIN!" Why should you care which one pays more?? Doesn't cost you any more or any less. I look at the entertainment value I get for my dollar. I've seen countless heats that were better than features. I'm not the least bit concerned about how much drivers earn. This isn't NASCAR or Indy Car Racing. This is local dirt track racing with local talent local sponsors and purses that your not going to get rich with. There still are those that do this as living, although those numbers are at an all time low and sinking fast. My belief is that the drivers entertain the fans and the drivers have a blast doing it. The amount of money earned is not important. That's what jobs are for. The cost of racing needs to be cut & cut big. The purses don't need to be made bigger to support the component manufactures appetite. This type of racing was for fun in the 60's when I started attending. More heats is more racing to me. Don't know how any fan could be against that.
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Re: WSS

Post by BlueOnBlack21 » Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:06 pm

I like the idea of adding laps to the feature. My problem with TT shows is a bad time screws your whole evening. Why should cars that qualify through the B start in front of cars that qualify through the heats? The passing points deal i agree never really worked and is too confusing. Just wish there was some way of rewarding the guys coming from the back of the heats that actually pass and race their way in.

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Re: WSS

Post by EdC » Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:34 am

It's well known that I dislike handicapping, which is nothing more than a penalty for success and a reward for mediocrity. I also agree that our racing today is boring but that isn't totally because of how the events are lined up, it is primarily a result of our current NAPCAR and WoO-influenced rules package where every car has to be the same. Add to that the number of talented drivers and crew chiefs with which we are blessed and you get follow-the-leader racing. But my wife, son, daughter-in-law and I took a mini-vacation trip to two race tracks hours out of the area last weekend and I saw one "yawner" format and one very interesting and fairly understandable format.

One track time-trialed every car by itself for two laps then started every event heads-up by time. After heat races and a B-main, they ran two fairly uneventful features. I left unimpressed. They did have one very good rule - if a driver was determined to have caused a crash that he could have avoided, he went to the rear and his "victim" got his spot back if he was able to continue. If the crash appeared intentional or the "victim" was unable to continue, the offending car was disqualified from that event. They only had to enforce that rule once in a heat race when one driver tried making his car fit where it couldn't, which resulting in the other car being spun, and the racing was clean the rest of the night. Remember, every time a car gets crashed, it costs the car owner money twice - first in earnings and again in repairs.

The other track did the line-ups right, in my opinion, and I've mentioned this method before. After the time for pill draw had passed, they determined by car count the number of heat races for the evening. They had 26 cars, so there would be three heats and an equal as possible number of pills numbered 1, 2 and 3 were put into a bag from which each driver drew his heat race number. Then those heat race cars took hot laps together - here's the interesting part - with the quickest of their three green flap laps being their time for the night. Hot laps AND time trials took 12 minutes! An inversion pill was then drawn for the heats and later for the feature; the B-main, if needed, would be run heads-up by time. The feature line-up was to be done using a combination of times and heat race finishing position so every pass in the heat races mattered. Unfortunately, it rained-out after hot laps/time trials and we never got to see the system play out but the local fans with whom I spoke all liked it.

I still maintain that the way to bring back passing in sprint car racing - and in all forms of dirt track racing - is not by arbitrarily penalizing success so the slower cars start up front. Rather, open the rules up enough that some creativity and ingenuity can make a difference. Cookie-cutter cars make for cookie-cutter racing.

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Re: WSS

Post by Warthog » Sun Aug 03, 2014 11:11 am

EdC wrote:SNIP
I still maintain that the way to bring back passing in sprint car racing - and in all forms of dirt track racing - is not by arbitrarily penalizing success so the slower cars start up front. Rather, open the rules up enough that some creativity and ingenuity can make a difference. Cookie-cutter cars make for cookie-cutter racing.

Ed
It seems to me that there are two keys to good racing on dirt:
First, focus the rules on limiting how much horsepower can be delivered to the track (tire size and compound, wing size). This helps reduce the incentive to spend mega-bucks on the engine, since more horsepower doesn't help anything if you can lock it into the track beyond some sane amount. The Late Models seem to be way ahead of sprint cars on this idea.
Second, loosen up the rest of the rules on anything else beyond size, safety, and weight. Wanna run a big block or one of those crate motors that have been proposed? Go for it! Wanna try a new chassis design? That's OK, too! Wanna do something that the WoO never tired? Yep, let's try it.

As Ed says, cookie cutter cars (or cars all assembled from the same catalog of parts) make for cookie-cutter racing. Let's bring back the driver skill (because of cars that are less locked-in to the track) and creativity.
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Re: WSS

Post by cjettmail » Wed Aug 06, 2014 4:48 pm

I like the two heats it's good for the fans. I've seen this @ Selinsgrove for there one race (360). And it works good. I not sure how the drivers like it or the owners. It's a good deal for fans.

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Re: WSS

Post by Mr. Port » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:58 am

When will this format be used anyhow?

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