engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

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Cobra
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engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by Cobra » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:11 pm

After sitting on the back straight last night, it became obvious during time trials that Hodnett either had a "big" engine or something else "exotic" as it clearly sounded much "bigger" than every other engine. (almost 1/2 second faster than everyone else)

We all commented that no doubt he would do an engine change. Not sure if he changed it (he did do an engine start and it did sound like a "normal" engine in both features.

It has me thinking. Surely the time has come for a 1 engine/night rule.

At the very least... if you change an engine then you start at the rear of the next race. (ie.. change after time trial, you must start rear of the heat, change after heat, you must start rear of the feature)

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by Bill Mc » Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:28 pm

I love it.
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2015 race count

Williams Grove-2
Lincoln- 7
Trail Way -2
Port - 1
Action Track -
Susquehanna -

12 races in 2016
43 races in 2015
43 races in 2014
40 races in 2013
50 races in 2012.
56 races in 2011.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by Shuey21 » Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:52 pm

Haha here we go. Just like last year Lucas was being accused of cheating during time trials now its Hodnetts turn. :laughing7:
2015 Count: 50

2016: 20
Lincoln - 4
Port Royal - 5
Williamsgrove - 7
Selinsgrove - 3
Susquehanna - 1

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by Bill Mc » Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:27 am

No people still think Lucas is to.
Central PA 358 Racing Series - http://www.centralparacing.com
Central PA Racing Scene - http://www.centralparacingscene.com
2015 race count

Williams Grove-2
Lincoln- 7
Trail Way -2
Port - 1
Action Track -
Susquehanna -

12 races in 2016
43 races in 2015
43 races in 2014
40 races in 2013
50 races in 2012.
56 races in 2011.

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CTtoPA
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by CTtoPA » Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:17 am

I like the one engine per night rule. That's your biggest liability and a huge expense. Blow it up and it's lights out.
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by Warthog » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:33 am

CTtoPA wrote:I like the one engine per night rule. That's your biggest liability and a huge expense. Blow it up and it's lights out.
That would be a start, but as others have observed, if the major issue is hooking up the power to the track, having super-secret big-buck engines ceases to matter as much. Of course, there's plenty of debate about how one might change the rules to achieve that effect.

If I might ask a question to which I truly don't know the answer (being just a casual fan, and not having any deep knowledge), I've heard that there are tire rules and other restrictions in the various forms of Late Model racing that are intended to do just that - unhook the cars to some degree, put less emphasis on the engine, and put more emphasis on driver skill. If that basic summary is correct, and such rules do exist, with that intended outcome, has it worked? Does one hear as many rumors about traction control, "secret" engine modifications, big-buck arms race among engine builders, etc. in LM racing, or have those folks figured out a structure that takes the emphasis off of pure horsepower and dollars per cubic inch?
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by vaportrails » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:18 am

I don't think that's fair at all to have to park it for the night just because you blew up. A driver and a team can't control when one is going to let loose. If you have the resources to drop another one in and the ability to do it then why should a team not be allowed to? What if your favorite driver blew up in hot laps? I agree that putting another motor in and running the rest of the night isn't going to make up for blowing one but it would be a complete and total waste of time and money for team, owner, and driver. Last time I checked you had to be in the feature to get any decent amount of purse money.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by vaportrails » Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:22 am

At the very least... if you change an engine then you start at the rear of the next race. (ie.. change after time trial, you must start rear of the heat, change after heat, you must start rear of the feature)[/quote]
Please don't suggest we change this great sport of dirt track racing into the bores of NASCAR like they do after an engine change. The team is already behind the 8 ball after losing an engine, at least let the driver remain the the starting spot he earned.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by bmd5229 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:47 pm

And Hodnett didn't change motors Friday. They took the hood off, and we're working on it then went out again. Not once was the motor pulled, then in victory lane stated that they've been having an issue all night with the motor and they were gonna go back and try and fix it, which again, they didn't put another motor in. Plus how's that even fair if they blow up in hot laps? Spend all that money to get the car there and the crew and driver in then because someone thinks they're cheating, they have to go home?? Absolutely dumb. Did you ever think maybe the guys who are always fast, are just simply good and fast?
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by CH_88 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:03 pm

vaportrails wrote:At the very least... if you change an engine then you start at the rear of the next race. (ie.. change after time trial, you must start rear of the heat, change after heat, you must start rear of the feature)
Please don't suggest we change this great sport of dirt track racing into the bores of NASCAR like they do after an engine change. The team is already behind the 8 ball after losing an engine, at least let the driver remain the the starting spot he earned.[/quote]
Exactly. If Hodnett, Wolfe, Dietrich or whoever else is cheating, so are the other guys and the drivers I mentioned are just doing it a little bit better than the others. I don't think there's a race team out there who doesn't try and exploit some grey areas here and there. Many times, that's the only place where you can find an edge on the competition. Especially now days since the dirt track socialists decided to ruin the wings and make everyone run the same tires with no adjustable shocks so that hopefully, everyone can get a trophy. The last thing we need is more B.S. rules like the one proposed in this thread.
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by racer33 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:19 pm

So Cobra can tell the size of an engine by the sound it makes.....wow....what if the headers get changed from 1 3/4" step headers to 2" straights or 4 into 2's oe 4 into 1's.....does that affect your judgement or can you hear right through that? These guys cannot afford to cheat. Do you think any reputable engine builder will build a "big" motor and take a chance of ruining their reputation for a couple of fast time awards of $100 to $300? And for CTtoPA about engine change penalties.....$40,000 to $60,000 for a motor and you figure they should just take a chance and run it just for the sake of not going to the rear even if you are in the midst of a point battle and forget all the people in the stands that happen to cheer for that particular driver, and don't forget all the work the crew puts in all week and all the money the owner spends and the sponsors who expect to see their investment on the race track, not in the trailer. Bet if you were picking up the tab you would have a different opinion on the one engine rule.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by brandnew » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:52 am

CH_88 wrote:
vaportrails wrote:At the very least... if you change an engine then you start at the rear of the next race. (ie.. change after time trial, you must start rear of the heat, change after heat, you must start rear of the feature)
Please don't suggest we change this great sport of dirt track racing into the bores of NASCAR like they do after an engine change. The team is already behind the 8 ball after losing an engine, at least let the driver remain the the starting spot he earned.
Exactly. If Hodnett, Wolfe, Dietrich or whoever else is cheating, so are the other guys and the drivers I mentioned are just doing it a little bit better than the others. I don't think there's a race team out there who doesn't try and exploit some grey areas here and there. Many times, that's the only place where you can find an edge on the competition. Especially now days since the dirt track socialists decided to ruin the wings and make everyone run the same tires with no adjustable shocks so that hopefully, everyone can get a trophy. The last thing we need is more B.S. rules like the one proposed in this thread.
I really feel a need to respond to your comment about cheating. I am more than frustrated that that people might think that everyone is doing it. I can assure you, we are not. You can only feel this complacent about it if you: A) do not put money into a race team B) do not spend a significant amount of your time preparing a car to be race ready or C) drive your *** off, to be beaten by someone who possibly is cheating. I'm not saying anyone is cheating, because I'm not a tech person, but if they are, they should feel a little bit of shame for not winning by set-up and driving ability alone. We like to win and need the money that goes along with it too, but we are not going to cheat to do it. There is a word called Integrity, I wish more people would apply it in their lives. I'm Cindy, Alan's sister, also known as the "Mouth" of the family, I couldn't keep it shut on this one.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by pushtruck » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:39 pm

1 engine/night rule? Stupid! Go one step further by prohibiting any spare parts into the pits.
However an engine change after time trials should be able to be protested by any competitor. The engine be stowed by the track officials until a protest time has passed, then returned to the hauler should no protest developed.

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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by ohdh » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:07 pm

Cobra wrote:After sitting on the back straight last night, it became obvious during time trials that Hodnett either had a "big" engine or something else "exotic" as it clearly sounded much "bigger" than every other engine. (almost 1/2 second faster than everyone else)
What rock have you been hiding under?? The "funny" sounding engines have been around since at least Wednesday night at Volusia in February. When one of those different sounding engines went south, so did that teams runs in the top 5 every night. :silenced: :silenced:
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Re: engines and engine changes, its time for a penalty

Post by CTtoPA » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:34 am

pushtruck wrote:1 engine/night rule? Stupid! Go one step further by prohibiting any spare parts into the pits.
How quickly that slope became greased. They already limit them to one RR, don't they? What's that? $250?
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