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 Post subject: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:56 am 
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I have some friends that are drivers and when I ask them what there firesuit is rated they look at me with a blank look and say its a real good suit. My question is how many of you drivers actually know what your firesuit is rated at and if you wear fireproof underwear? I believe safety is #1. I remember a couple years ago some drivers were asked what they fear the most and all of them said fire. I asked one of the fire crew at the grove last year what his suit was rated and he said he didn't know. His suit was a SFI 3.2a/5 with no fireproof underwear. I asked why he didn't have underwear and he said it was to hot then I said you know you only have around 10 seconds of direct fire protection from second degree burns and he said oh. I have found suits that are rated a sfi 10 or sfi 15 for the around the price of the top of the line 5 suit ($1500.00+). Here is the chart for burn times from SFI.

SFI Rating TPP Value Time to 2nd Degree Burn
3.2A/1 6 3 Seconds
3.2A/3 14 7 Seconds
3.2A/5 19 10 Seconds
3.2A/10 38 19 Seconds
3.2A/15 60 30 Seconds
3.2A/20 80 40 Seconds

Why you should at least wear underwear with a 5 rated suit.

Another way to obtain extra air gaps is to wear racing underwear. Fire resistant underwear should be worn with every type of driver suit, especially single layer suits because it will double the minimum protection time (+3 seconds). The 3.2A rating does not include underwear. It is certified through SFI Spec 3.3 for Driver Accessories and undergoes the same TPP and flammability tests as the driver suit outerwear.

I used to run with a local fire company and had the misfortune of destroying 3 nomex coats within 3 weeks. I didn't even know I was on fire or being heated up with moltent aluminum. So this is a very big deal to me because those coats were very thick and had many layers. We got the new Kevlar/pbi coats and they didn't melt or burn up like the nomex coats. A driver only has this thin layer of protection why do you skimp on your own safety? I don't ever want to see a wreck with fire and especially don't want the children in the stands to witness a driver or fire crew being burnt real bad because of money. Here is the link to the SFI website to further read.




http://www.sfifoundation.com/driversuit.html

Thanks
Rodney

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Last edited by zipzap on Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:34 pm 
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Wow 121 views and only one post and no drivers. :ahhh: This thread was not intended to bash anyone just to be informative. I just would like to find out what drivers think about this subject. Hey I was one of those crazy people that ran into buildings on fire when you are running out. Now when I was in the navy wow :dontknow: Fighting fires in a long sleeve shirt and two fire nozzles till they got us the 1 piece pb firei suits.

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:21 am 
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no offense to any driver but all you have to do is go thru the pits on any given night and you can tell what drivers are REALLY THINKING about safety. some are big time safety conscious and some seem to have a desire to meet their maker. i don't know what the mentality is but i'd spend 1200 bucks on a hans device long before that set of adjustable shocks. i remember seeing a picture last year taken from the rear of the car that as the car came to rest you could see both shoulders hanging outside the same side of the cockpit from using old belts and an old low back racing seat with no containment. i've seen guys in fire suits that are as thin as the overalls i wear to work around the house. i spent 25 years on a track safety crew and i think i've seen most if not all of the good and the bad. i don't care what division you run, from sprints to roadrunners, when it comes to personal safety inside the cockpit it must be the drivers responsibility. injuries are going to occasionally happen when there is an accident but why not lessen the severity or chances, especially the severe stuff like head and neck injuries and fire. if you read the accident report on DE you'll find that he hit the wall at about 35mph. what do you think the impact speed of a flipping sprint car is or a late model head on into the wall? why spend the money on something that makes you go faster before you spend it on safety. it may sound morbid but how fast can you go in a hospital bed, wheelchair or pine box. just my .02

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:03 am 
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:agreed: :signs011:

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:33 am 
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I raced some back in the late 90's. I had a double layer Racerquip suit that gave be about 15 to 20 seconds, plus I ALWAYS wore nomex underwear, Simpson fire proof shoes, gloves and a head sock. Sure I was hot in the race car, but once the racing started I never noticed.

I was burned badly as kid had second and third degree burns on my left hand. That was a thousand time more uncomfortable than being hot in a race car! I hate seeing guys race without proper protection especially those who don’t wear gloves. You have no idea how bad your hands hurt when burned!

Thanks Zipzap for starting this post!


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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:02 am 
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David m,

Thanks, You at least knew you fire protection times. :) This is what I would hope would happen a good discussion and just maybe someone will read this and we may save them some severe burns. Here is what I'm talking about. I can buy a top off the line 1 pc SFI 3.2a/5 suit for $1,299.00. Or I could buy a 1pc SFI 3.2a/15 TPP rating of 62 which is even better than the 60 required for the 15 rating for $1475.00 Or a 1pc SFI 3.2a/20 $1675.00. Ok these suits will be bulky and hot but what's the price you put on yourself and your family? :thinking:

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:47 am 
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Containment seat, Triple layer suit with underwear and head sock, gloves. Anything heavier gets pretty bulky in a sprint car. Another thing i have seen often is a malfunction and a suit soaked in oil during early competition. A spare along and sox or spare shoes would not be a bad idea. Not everyone can do this, but an oil soaked suit is asking for fire on the suit causing sweat blisters. Flame is not the only burn, beading sweat boiling on your skin will do a pretty nasty job also.
[url]Image[/url]

I think if you go through the Driver picture thread on here you will see that most of the top drivers don't wear junk. They pretty much take it serious, although the reason for my post is i totally agree. Even though we were a very tight budget team there is a place to do it and a place not to..


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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:58 am 
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GOSHOW wrote:
Containment seat, Triple layer suit with underwear and head sock, gloves. Anything heavier gets pretty bulky in a sprint car. Another thing i have seen often is a malfunction and a suit soaked in oil during early competition. A spare along and sox or spare shoes would not be a bad idea. Not everyone can do this, but an oil soaked suit is asking for fire on the suit causing sweat blisters. Flame is not the only burn, beading sweat boiling on your skin will do a pretty nasty job also.
[url]Image[/url]

I think if you go through the Driver picture thread on here you will see that most of the top drivers don't wear junk. They pretty much take it serious, although the reason for my post is i totally agree. Even though we were a very tight budget team there is a place to do it and a place not to..



Thanks GOSHOW

Cant believe only two responses. Many views. :clap: :clap:
Going through pic section is what got me started on doing this thread. See many drivers with a SFI 3.2a/5 suits.

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:58 pm 
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Many people think that because times are tough they need to cut expenses where they can. Safety is not the area to be tight. There is more money tied up in my helmet bag than on some of the stuff I have on the car. I buy used parts for the car, but not for my safety. Sure, it's hot. Sure, it's bulky. But, I get to race again this year because I take safety seriously. Believe me, I know things happen we have no control over, but at least have a chance.


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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Scott Harro wrote:
no offense to any driver but all you have to do is go thru the pits on any given night and you can tell what drivers are REALLY THINKING about safety. some are big time safety conscious and some seem to have a desire to meet their maker. i don't know what the mentality is but i'd spend 1200 bucks on a hans device long before that set of adjustable shocks.


i will never wear one of those HANS traps. had a good talk with steve Wilber when he first got back in the car after his fire. as a street stock racer he told me never to wear one, and attributes the severity of his burns to his Head-n-neck restraint. Watch the 2010 Thunder tape. one of the TQ Midgets catches on fire, and the driver gets his HANS stuck in the halo bar. luckily the fire crew was there quick.
HANS: good at 200 mph. short track racing :doh:

I appriciate the info on the fire suits, but some of these devises can hurt just as much as they help. I appriciate it when tracks leave the use of these things up to the drivers.

a for instance, alot of tracks have a mandated window net rule for stock cars. i hate window nets, so i use arm restraints. they not only keep my arms in the car, but also keep my arms from fliying around inside the car and hitting the roll cage. One motion (undoing the belts) and i can get out of the car. i don't have to fumble with a window net also.


and ps 3.2A/5 with underwear, crow neck coller, and arm restraints


:thumbleft: :thumbright: :clap: GREAT TOPIC!

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Great topic.. for many reasons...

Does anyone really think sprint car (or any racing for that matter) is safe?

Where does the "more safety needed" thought process end?

It wasn't long ago that cars didn't have cages, and drivers didn't wear helmets. Yes many more passed away during that time, and in contrast with todays much faster speeds and lighter weight chassis and components, I would say that racing is about as safe as it's going to be. Freak accidents happen. Yes learn from them, but my question is ...

How far do we go before the driver has to accept reality and understand that its dangerous to strap into race cars ?

Yes they do make onboard suppression sytems for race cars, even sprint cars. Should they be mandated ??

I think this thread has proven that by the lack of responses that I believe that the drivers understand that the risk of injury or worse is the price that you pay for the adrenalin rush that you get.


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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:19 pm 
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most drivers only read messageboards and never register.


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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:02 am 
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Simpson mto33 double layer suit, double layer gloves, carbonX underwear:socks,head sock,shirt,pant. Fire proof helmet. Head restraint, one of the first in pa to use full containment seat. Six point harness with 2" lap belt (better pelvic area restraint) . Fuel shut off vavle easily within reach, drive shaft hoop, extra bars under seat for rear protection. I don't like the hans for some crashes (actually shown to increase injury). Not sure about the hoop above the cage either.
Its amazing to me how many drivers don't wear a head sock, your neck and face is totally exposed to fire, see guy wearing t-shirts that have laminated designs on them, suits that look like from the 80's. Racing is dangerous and always will be. Should be up to the driver as to what safety devices are in place (not always) some owners won't use drive shaft hoop due to it bending torque tube in wreck(ahole). Every person has their level of risk, it is evident at every race you go to in every form of racing.
Also some of suit manufactures make it almost impossible to get a burn time number out of them. I'm spending 1900 on this suit how much time does that buy me in a oil fire, alcohol fire, gas fire,,, shouldn t be that hard for them to publish these numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: ? for all drivers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:18 pm 
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XracerX wrote:
Simpson mto33 double layer suit, double layer gloves, carbonX underwear:socks,head sock,shirt,pant. Fire proof helmet. Head restraint, one of the first in pa to use full containment seat. Six point harness with 2" lap belt (better pelvic area restraint) . Fuel shut off vavle easily within reach, drive shaft hoop, extra bars under seat for rear protection. I don't like the hans for some crashes (actually shown to increase injury). Not sure about the hoop above the cage either.
Its amazing to me how many drivers don't wear a head sock, your neck and face is totally exposed to fire, see guy wearing t-shirts that have laminated designs on them, suits that look like from the 80's. Racing is dangerous and always will be. Should be up to the driver as to what safety devices are in place (not always) some owners won't use drive shaft hoop due to it bending torque tube in wreck(ahole). Every person has their level of risk, it is evident at every race you go to in every form of racing.
Also some of suit manufactures make it almost impossible to get a burn time number out of them. I'm spending 1900 on this suit how much time does that buy me in a oil fire, alcohol fire, gas fire,,, shouldn t be that hard for them to publish these numbers.



Here are the SFI ratings Look for your sfi tag and then match your number to the chart.
SFI Rating TPP Value Time to 2nd Degree Burn
3.2A/1 6 3 Seconds
3.2A/3 14 7 Seconds
3.2A/5 19 10 Seconds
3.2A/10 38 19 Seconds
3.2A/15 60 30 Seconds
3.2A/20 80 40 Seconds
Thanks for taking a interest. This is why I started this thread hopefully to help someone not get seriously burnt. :clap: :clap:
Rod

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