NEWBOMB TURK wrote:
I would defiantly have to disagree on cost of parts. No way a cast iron block costs what an aluminum block cost.
When you start talking about blocks that are intended for racing there isn't a whole bunch of differences as far as costs go. Case in point I did a quick search on Summit Racing just to show. Here are a bunch of steel aftermarket SBC blocks. Various bores and such. They start $1600 and go to $7500 depending on your costs/desires. http://www.summitracing.com/search/make/chevrolet/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i/part-type/engines-bare-blocks/engine-block-material/cast-iron/main-caps-included/yes/engine-block-style/aftermarket?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending
Now talking about an aluminum block obviously the choices are a lot smaller but you get into the aluminum block party starting around $4500 or so depending on price. Here are two links http://www.summitracing.com/search/make/chevrolet/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i/part-type/engines-bare-blocks/main-caps-included/yes/engine-block-style/aftermarket/engine-block-material/aluminum?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending
and the Brodix blocks http://www.summitracing.com/search/make/chevrolet/engine-family/chevy-small-block-gen-i/part-type/engines-bare-blocks/main-caps-included/yes/engine-block-style/aftermarket/engine-block-material/a-356-aluminum?SortBy=DisplayPrice&SortOrder=Ascending
I can't see a steel crank coming anywhere near a titanium crank.
Not true. Here's the WOO rule book. No titanium in the bottom end. Section 15.1 paragraph H. http://woosprint.com/images/stories/MainImages/PDF/2014_WoO_Sprint_Rulebook.pdf
I've heard $5,000.00 for a rebuild every ten races on a 410. 360 start the year off fresh and then one time after that. I'd like to see some prices. I would think a top of the line 410 is about $10,000.00 more than a 360 at least. Then you have the rebuilds.
Aside from a catastrophic failure I would really think that to freshen a 410 would in all honesty cost you about the same as if you were to refreshen a 360/358. Being there is a limited amount of titanium in both motors most of your costs in a refresh would be common to both motors. While I have never done a refresh on a sprint car motor I can say I've done it on my little LSx motor and these are the items I'm sure they would also check on a 410/358/360
1. Pull the rods/crank, magnaflux and check for tolerances. If within tolerance - refinish. Any cracks or wear beyond tolerance - replace
2. Clean and check block/cylinder bores against pistons. If bore is out of spec then rehone if material/rules allow. If pistons are out of spec for bore/out of round then replace pistons. Rings will always be replaced
3. In my little truck motor we just replace the pump everytime being it's a wet sump setup and they are cheap enough ($250). I'm sure these motors they don't replace everytime due to costs, but I'm sure they disassemble, clean, rebuild, and flow test the pump. If it doesn't meet spec it is replaced.
4. Never dealt with methanol, but I'm sure they do the same here as the oil pump.
5. Inspect oil tank and oil lines. Replace as needed.
6. Once piston sizes have been determined the pistons, rings, rods, and crank will all be balanced as an assembly.
7. Go through the heads and redo valves, new valve springs, valve seals, and keepers. Inspect and replace retainers as needed
8. Inspect cam, cam bearings, and lifters for abnormal wear and replace all.
9. Replace all head studs
10. Clean all components (for the fifth time) and reassemble all with new gaskets and seals.
If you break it into it's smaller pieces I really can't imagine where it would be that much different other than the frequency. So if this is what all they do when a motor is refreshed, Yeah I would say $5,000 is a rough ballpark figure knowing as much/little as I do. When looking for some additional info I found this on the Internet. I figured you would find this interesting. It basically covers a father/daughter race team out in California where he runs 410s and she runs 360s. And what all he has done during motor refreshes/rebuilds. Kinda interesting. http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0903_sprint_car_engine_teardown/viewall.html
I doubt ASCS rules can't be enforced. The price of everything is going up, from toilet paper to sprint car engines. Not much R&D being done on toilet paper.
But you can bet your bottom dollar there is some engine builder out there right now working on something new to give his motors that little bit of an edge.
I still disagree! Your throwing around generalities. Be specific!
If a 410 cost $10,000.00 more than a 358/360 then something must cost more.